In many ways, Maitland Ward‘s career trajectory has mirrored that of Adult Empire. Both gained fame in the late 1990s in mainstream entertainment. Both evolved and adapted with the times. And both eventually found their most successful niche in the wonderful world of adult entertainment.

That’s why we’re particularly proud to present this new podcast interview with Ward as part of the Adult Empire 25th anniversary celebration! Listen as she discusses her upcoming book (Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me From Hollywood), her collaborations with Kayden Kross, her thoughts on soap operas versus porn, her passion for all things Star Wars, and much more. Listen to the podcast on your favorite platform, watch the video version below or on YouTube, and check out text highlights and a complete interview transcript.

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Select interview highlights

On what surprises her most about her three years in porn:

Well, I think it surprised me that it’s actually been three years. It’s been such a long time. And it’s been an amazing journey, I think. I don’t know if “surprise” is the word. But it’s been better than I had hoped or even dreamed coming into making films and making real feature films with sex and something that I always wanted to do. And it was just very much fate that linked me up with director Kayden [Kross] in the beginning. So I just think that we’ve just done so many special things. And I think that is surprising in the best possible way.

On what she remembers most about the late ’90s:

In ’97, I was still on Bold and Beautiful [ . . ] at the end of the Beautiful time. So yeah, it’s so much of a different world than it was. [ . . . ] What I was going through and stuff, I was so green, and I had a couple of casting directors say I was green at the time. I was so vulnerable to the world and I wish I could like talk to that girl back then. And give her some advice on people and situations on how to be yourself and just really express myself back then.

On watching porn in the ’90s:

It was so much harder to find porn. I mean, I have to say I was probably one of the ones that was watching just whatever came on. And I thought that’s what porn was. You know, I wasn’t delving too deeply into it. It wasn’t until later on when I watched Kayden with Tori Black that I thought, “Wow, this is amazing. This is a real film that looks beautiful. It’s so well done.” So back in the early days, I would say I would just watch like — yeah, I mean, when we got the internet finally. Or you’d sneak something. You’d sneak like a video or something. It was all very hush-hush. You couldn’t just go on the internet and just find everything you needed right away. And I was probably too scared to do that. I thought people would know that I was searching porn. But yeah, back in the late ’90s, we didn’t really have that much of an outlet. It was mostly you get a DVD or something or watch that, but I wasn’t like a connoisseur when I was really young.

On where she hopes to be in 25 years:

Well, I hope to be making films. I would hope to be writing and stuff too. And 25 years, my god! But yeah, I hope that I have had a great body of work, of course, in porn and in mainstream, marrying the two. That’s really important to me. And I hope to have written a lot of things that I want to write about, a lot of books. And like I said, the stories and scripts, I really want to write scripts more in the future. So yeah, I mean, if I would have said 25 years ago that I would be talking to you about my porn career when I was not even on Boy Meets World yet, I would have absolutely said you are absolutely fucking crazy.

On how the book Rated X came to be:

I really wanted to do it. But I actually did not expect to do it as quickly, probably, as I did. Because I was doing a podcast and this woman — she’s great. And my agent who at the agency was listening to the podcast, because she actually was writing a book or selling a book with this woman who has this podcast. And she loved my story. And she contacted me and I was like, “Wow, this is a great agent. She’s really supportive. The story, she’s [so] sex-positive, and she loves it.” And she’s like, I really think we can pitch and sell this. So within a very short period of time, we pitched this whole thing. I wrote a couple chapters. I showed the whole thing. And then after taking several meetings, Simon and Schuster really wanted to sign with me. And I was like, yeah, that’s where I want to go with it. They were an amazing team of women, primarily, that I’m working with who are so excited about the book. They’re so excited about the female empowerment of the book, and everything, and they’re very sex positive and open-minded.

On the book’s sexually explicit moments:

Oh, well, it was a candid part of the story. I couldn’t not have the sex in there, being a pornstar. And also just this was about my journey and sexuality and my womanhood. So I had to include things that have happened to me and all of the sex. It has to do with that. And sure, I know people like to read that, but it was definitely not thought about like, “Oh, I’m just going to write this salacious thing.” I could have written a lot more instances that happened. [ . . . ]

But I’m talking more about my personal sex stories along the way. They were ones that like shaped me, I think, and kind of made me think. I think all of them kind of made me think and made me change me a little bit. So those are the ones I chose.

On the possibility of a sequel book:

I am going to write another book. But I’m not sure yet if it’s going to be nonfiction or doing erotic fiction, because I really want to do that. And I think I have some cool ideas for a novel in that way, like an erotic story or a collection of erotic stories. Because I used to do [those kinds of stories]. And I still do at times, but I really started off doing bedtime stories on my Patreon, where I would read dirty stories and act them out. This was in the beginning. And people really liked that. So yeah, so I’m thinking about that. But a follow-up book — I’m trying to think how much more I can tell nonfiction-wise. I could definitely share other stories and stuff. But I’m definitely interested in doing some erotic fiction and a novel.

On playing dramatic characters like Deeper’s Mistress Maitland:

I’ve loved being able to play those roles. Because I was never able to play anything like that in Hollywood. I mean, the closest was my soap opera days. And that was so over-the-top dramatic. This is real drama and real sensuality and intensity. And I’ve loved that. I love being able to have these monologues and these characters and these scripts that just really allow me to play this intense sexual style of these characters that I was never able to play before. So it’s actually fun for me to go back and forth into it. I love playing the comedy. I actually do! And I love doing that. But then I love playing these dark characters. And the ones that Kayden writes are so delicious. So, I really liked that. But yeah, I like anything that’s intense and makes you feel something. No matter what it is. I think I like to hit you right to the heart no matter what.

On the different types of porn:

I think a lot of the stereotypes that come from porn to a world that might not know porn — well, they just know of it. They watch it. They go to Pornhub. They go to Brazzers. It’s what people know of it; they think everything is silly. “Nobody can act” or “they have silly lines,” or they think it’s all just a joke. And I hate the fact that people think that they can always make a joke out of porn when there’s so many great performers, and scripts and these other studios making these features and doing this stuff. And those aren’t seen by the outside world because Brazzers is like McDonald’s, like everybody sees that  . . . Pornhub — everybody sees that. And it’s not bad to have McDonald’s, but it’s like we are serving a steak dinner with like four courses. All these people making features that mean something and that have good acting in them and good writing and directing and art. I want people to see that in the world. And I’m tired of them being served hamburgers and thinking that’s what porn is. So yeah, I think a steak dinner is much better than just always having hamburgers. [ . . . ]

There is something else than just silly porn, even like just Pornhub stuff — you just pull it up and it’s mindless. Or just really super gonzo. And again, that’s fun. Sometimes, I like having the burger, like, every so often, but it’s not all that there is and porn needs to be respected more for what it can give to the world.

On porn’s unfair stigma:

People just like porn. Everyone watches porn. So why are we hiding the fact that everybody’s watching it? And acting like it’s something bad? And I think the more and more it’s normalized and talked about and isn’t shied away from as something “Oh, scary and dirty or whatever,” it’s so much better for everyone. And it brings the worlds of mainstream and porn together.

On learning to love the journey:

I’d say just take the journey every day and just follow your instincts and your heart and you’re going to get to where you need to go. And I wish I would have told myself that earlier. But then, the story, it’s weird — I’m looking back on things like “Oh, if I just would have told my younger self to do this and that.” But I wouldn’t have had this journey in my story, and I wouldn’t have been here. And so if I had had everything go like I wanted it to go where I planned it to go, or I thought it should go, I would not have a story today. So I think a lot of younger people should remember that. Anything that’s happening to you that’s negative or bad, or it’s part of your story and it makes you who you are. And if you can get beyond that if you can, like you know, take that and kind of run with it or overcome situations. You’re going to come out in a very — your authentic self, I guess. You’re going to find yourself because yeah, that’s what I did.

 

Also check out our 2019 interview with Ward:

 

Full interview transcript

Most surprising thing about the last three years?

Dallas

So what has surprised you most about these last three years in your career since you signed the the Deeper contract?

Maitland
Well, I think it surprised me that it’s actually been three years. It’s been such a long time. And it’s been an amazing journey, I think. I don’t know if “surprise” is the word. But it’s been better than I had hoped or even dreamed coming into making films and making real feature films with sex and something that I always wanted to do. And it was just very much fate that linked me up with director Kayden [Kross] in the beginning. So I just think that we’ve just done so many special things. And I think that is surprising in the best possible way.

And also, I guess just how, like coming into the business, especially at the first — how scenes worked, how the industry was, how people were like, what happened on a porn set. I think a lot of people have such stereotypes in their mind about what porn sets are and what happens on them. So to see it run basically like any film  or television set that I’ve been on. Maybe with smaller crews, I guess, but actually, it takes some pretty big crews. So I think that it was surprising also in the best possible way to see just how everything was run and how it happened. And I also surprised myself along the way of just the stuff that I’ve done. I mean, I’m still surprising myself in this latest feature that we’re doing and stuff. So just, you know, doing things that in the past might have scared me or I would have been a little more apprehensive or scared. Not scared, but like nervous, I guess. And now I’m just like — I love it. And I just jump right into the pool, right into the deep end. And I love that! I guess it’s fitting the deep end because I’m a at Deeper! [Laughs]

Dallas

Perfect, perfect. So I don’t know how much you can tell us. But with the new feature you mentioned, what is one of those things that you’ve done that you might have been scared of before, but now you’re jumping in headfirst?

Maitland
I can’t tell you what exactly, but it is a first so you can look at all my stuff, see what I’ve done before. But I’m also doing things I’ve done before again, in bigger and bolder ways. And especially with character-driven stuff, too. So you’re going to see different facets of my character. And what I’m excited about with this big feature that we’re doing right now is it’s basically a very artistic metaphor of my life. It’s an artistic metaphor. I’m not as dastardly like my characters are in the movies, but it really hits home. And then I think Kayden did a brilliant job writing that. So I’m excited for you guys to see it.

Rated X: how the book came to be

Dallas

So I think that’s a good segue there that you talked about the metaphor for your life. And of course, you have an awesome book that is coming out quite soon. It is called Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me From Hollywood. So tell us first of all, just how did this project come about?

Maitland

I always thought about writing a book because I just wanted to tell my story. I’m a writer from way back. I started writing erotic fiction years ago. And that’s kind of what got me into the whole sex field. I guess it got me thinking about my fantasies and things I wanted to try and do that I just put down on the page at that time. And I studied screenwriting for two years at UCLA. And so I was really focused on writing at a point before I started getting into all of this, like things I got into later and performing and everything. So that really came about when the spin off of Boy Meets Girl, Girl Meets World, came out and there was a renewed interest in the cast and stuff and my social media presence. It really grew. And I was doing just stuff that I loved — my authentic self and my journey. And I said, you know, “Forget it! Now, I’m just going to be who I am, I’m not going to try to live up to some Hollywood ideal or that they set for me, some persona that they want me to live in this box that they want to live in, want me to live in.” So I started doing my own thing. And my following grew and I started selling content and along the way, and then here we are. And I just think it’s just very interesting, this journey that I’ve taken, and it’s like no other.

So anyway, that’s the book, how I got to be the book! I had thought about writing my story. And I really wanted to do it. But I actually did not expect to do it as quickly, probably, as I did. Because I was doing a podcast and this woman — she’s great. And my agent who at the agency was listening to the podcast, because she actually was writing a book or selling a book with this woman who has this podcast. And she loved my story. And she contacted me and I was like, “Wow, this is a great agent. She’s really supportive. The story, she’s [so] sex-positive, and she loves it. And she’s like, I really think we can pitch and sell this. So within a very short period of time, we pitched this whole thing. I wrote a couple chapters. I showed the whole thing. And then after taking several meetings, Simon and Schuster really wanted to sign with me. And I was like, yeah, that’s where I want to go with it. They were an amazing team of women, primarily, that I’m working with who are so excited about the book. They’re so excited about the female empowerment of the book, and everything, and they’re very sex positive and open-minded.

And I think I’m finding that with a lot of women along the way — people have the stereotypical misconception that women don’t watch porn or women hate porn, but I’ve been finding along the way, they’re very much embracing it and embracing my journey in this. But then I wrote the book in like four or five months. And this was the last year. I finished the book last year in like August. So it was a wild cathartic journey for me just to go through my whole life. And the porn stuff was more fresh in my mind. So it wasn’t so difficult. It was fun to write, and it starts with going back to my childhood and teen years when I was on the soap opera, and just looking at myself on Boy Meets World and all my journey early on in my career. It was just interesting to see the girl I was then compared to the woman I am now and. And I really recommend it to anybody who likes to write, write your life stories about your past to see who you were, and to examine that, and I see so many mistakes that I made and and people I allowed allowed to treat me a certain way or keep me down or keep me in a box or bubble or something. And then breaking free of that has been amazing. So yeah, so writing, it was amazing. But I had to wait a whole year for it to come out now. Because there’s so much to do, like with printing. And we did the audiobook, where there’s a lot of stuff along the way that you just you go through edits and all this stuff. So I’m very excited to September 6 will finally be the day everyone can read my story and my journey. And I think it’s one that nobody else has, I can actually say with all certainty that no one else in the world has been over 40 an ex-sitcom star from Disney and became a big pornstar. And [it] brought me back to my acting career and writing. And I get to be a writer, all because of porn. I mean, I think that’s amazing.

• Download and listen to Maitland Ward’s full Adult Empire interview here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn

Drafting the book

Dallas
Right, the word unique is tossed around a lot, but it does apply in this case for sure. Now, did you have to do a lot of drafting and redrafting, or was the first version that you wrote more or less the book that we you know have in our hands now?

Maitland
it was more or less. I wrote a lot more — I overwrote it. And I have my editor. She’s brilliant. And she like really knows how to make it format. You know, like, “You don’t need this. You don’t need that. Or you need more of this.” So yeah, there was like two runs of it. We went over it, but I mean, the bones are pretty much the same, though, from the beginning. It’s just I overwrote it and we’ve tooled it down because you got to get it you know, edited correctly, to be punchy.

Catchy intros and the influence of screenwriting

Dallas
Right and it is punchy, isn’t it? It is very nicely structured. Some porn star bios they tend to be a little episodic, I guess, almost like diary entries. But this book has a beautiful structure to it, a beautiful writerly structure to it. Starting with a often a catchy line or a joke each chapter something to pull you in.

Maitland
I really tried to write — whenever I write chapters — and also, I think I really learned this in screenwriting, because screenwriting is such a fast kind of thing. It’s a totally different animal from other kinds of writing. And I studied that, but I love to catch somebody at the beginning and at the end of the chapter, because it’s kind of like, I don’t know, it just starts you off right. So I’m very appreciate you noticing that. But yeah, a lot of like celebrity biographies, they have ghostwriters, of course. And I wrote every word of that thing. So I was very proud of that. But yeah, it was fun. I think it’s fun. It’s funny, the first chapter that I wrote to send in to with my pitch, and everything to the publishing houses, was the anal chapter, where I talk about anal preparation, how I get through the anal stuff, so they loved that one. And that was funny that I would send the final chapter to all these places. But I think that really surprised them in a good way. And they knew it’d be a fun book, too. It’s a deep book, but it’s fun, too.

Material that didn’t make the book?

Dallas

Now you mentioned that that you overwrote it at first. Was there any material that you were really sad to lose? It was great material, but you knew it didn’t fit in? You knew it had to go?

Maitland

You know what [biggest] thing I figured out, learned in this process? If I was writing a story about someone else, even though it was a great story, like if I said, I was on the set with this person, and they did this, they would be like, it’s not your journey. You don’t need that. And even though I have these are great anecdotes, but it’s not for my book. It’s for something else. So there were little stories along the way, that I am sorry, I couldn’t tell just because it didn’t have to do with my path. And it got off track a little bit. So definitely, that was the kind of stuff that you know, was overwritten and stuff. So that yeah, those anecdotes are there for other people. But yeah, I learned a lot in the editing process about that, too. And like how you really need to focus your theme of your material, and not just go off and write everything.

Hardest parts of the book to write

Dallas

Were there any particular parts that were really difficult to revisit, just psychologically?

Maitland

My younger years, especially my teenage years on the soap opera, were especially [hard], with one individual that is mentioned in the book, just looking back on my relationship during that time with this person. You will see in the book. It was really messed up. And it was really a control freak kind of situation. And I didn’t see it at the time like that. I saw it as him being very protective and caring for me when he was really trying to just control what I did in a very weird way. But that was interesting. And also even looking back on my Boy Meets World years. Like I tell the story about you know, having to run around in my lingerie in front of the producers. I thought at the time that was just what you did as an actress even though it was uncomfortable. It’s just that’s part of the job. They have to see the clothes. But really that probably was not [the case]. ican I honestly say in porn, I’ve never run around the heads of Vixen with my lingerie, right like that. So, I mean, I run around Kayden. Maybe we’re about to shoot — “Does this look good.” And wardrobe of course. But like that was a really kind of weird situation. And there was a lot of weird controlling. I see the fact that I allowed people a lot of times in my life to control who my persona was, and to control me in the most “loving ways.” They would act like that was a very loving way. And I felt cared for in this way, but it wasn’t looking back on it, really. Yeah. So those were difficult — I don’t know about “difficult” — eye-opening times to look back on because I see it in a totally different way now that I wrote the book.

Candid discussions of sex in the book

Dallas
The book, of course, is very, very candid. And just given the nature of it, there is a good amount of sex in the book., I think it would be fair to say. When you were writing at it, did you feel an obligation to visit those things in detail? Because you felt like people might expect that, or did you just regarded it as an organic part of the story? “I’m going to be candid about this and this is just the way it’s going to be.”

Maitland
Oh, well, it was a candid part of the story. I couldn’t not have the sex in there, being a pornstar. And also just this was about my journey and sexuality and my womanhood. So I had to include like things that have happened to me and all of the sex. It has to do with that. And sure, I know people like to read that, but it was definitely not thought about like, “Oh, I’m just going to write this salacious thing.” I could have written a lot more instances that happened. In the same way that the stories that I told, they didn’t affect my personhood along the way, like every story that I tell sexually, except for the ones like on set — those are just, you know, I’m talking about being on a porn set and I’m talking about the fun we have here. But I’m talking more about my personal sex stories along the way. They were ones that like shaped me, I think, and kind of made me think. I think all of them kind of made me think and made me change me a little bit. So those are the ones I chose, but there are more tales of Maitland, but I couldn’t share them all. Like couldn’t share — just like little meaningless ones.

Dallas

You’re right, because it does all flow very organically. And you relate these stories and then it fits into something that you learned about yourself. I mean, there’s that, where you talk about, I guess it was a threesome with the two guys and and after you fell asleep with them, and then afterwards they were having some sort of encounter the two of them themselves. And you were kind of shocked by that and you were thinking about it afterwards.

Maitland

Yeah. I was thinking, yeah. And it really jarred me. And in looking back, I was shaken up, because I had those feelings towards the same sex, too. And my parents were homophobic. I say in the book, it’s kind of like, we just didn’t think it was — it wouldn’t happen. Like it wouldn’t happen to be bisexual or gay or whatever, in our family or whatever. But they loved other gay people. And it was fine, but for me to be involved in that felt like, I don’t know, betrayal to my grandmother or something. And it was really messed up because my grandmother was very religious and very she would not have been happy with those kinds of things. But it also awakened me to the fact that I liked it. And I liked the whole thing of it and I wanted to do it again. And I felt guilty about that I was so much younger then and that really set in place that yeah, I’d like to. So it planted a seed in me I guess about for the future and that’s why I definitely wrote about that hookup because it was it was instrumental in me like, kind of being shaken up and seeing myself in a new way and recognizing that that was something that I enjoyed being part of.

Choosing the book’s title

Dallas

Now, the title of the book is very interesting, too, and I think has a lot of interesting implications that you can read into it. So how did you choose that?

Maitland

We had went through so many titles, like so many titles, but Simon and Schuster really like that, just because it kind of — I don’t know. It blanketed everything, like, of me. I’m rated  X in porn, but I’m rated X in Hollywood because they rejected me. It’s all sorts of implications. It’s a flashy title. It’s fun. And it really says that’s me. I’m like rated X in so many different avenues of my life. Like mainstream looks at me like that. Porn looks at me like that. People in society look at me like that. I’m kind of a walking scandal. [Laughs] The press sees me like that.

But yeah, it was a fun title, too. And it was very like fitting especially since it’s like porn liberated me from Hollywood. And I think people will read that and be like . . . Wow, you know — it was funny. I was sitting with one of the galley copies . . . a friend of mine who’s a friend of mine since my Bold and Beautiful days. He’s a member of the press. We were at lunch and he was looking through and he was actually looking to read his little parts. And like the Bold and Beautiful parts. But two tables next to us, [someone said], “What is that? What — liberated? What does that — porn liberated you? And I was like, “Okay, you’re going to sit in front of the barstool and read this.” People are so interested because the story is just I guess a little like shocking in a good way. They want to see what it’s about so I think it’s a apt title.

Dallas
And even the Rated X part. I mean, that’s kind of a deep cut there. I think in as much as “rated x” — originally the MPAA, that was their original rating for adult movies. And then it became associated with porn. So they said,” Okay, we’re not going to have that anymore. It’s NC-17.” So rated X is a creation of Hollywood that they rejected.

Maitland
Yeah, that’s a really good point. That wasn’t really what I was thinking but that’s, yeah, now you say that, yeah.

• Download and listen to Maitland Ward’s full Adult Empire interview here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn

Sense of humor in the book

Dallas

Right, as I said, that’s a deep cut! Now the interesting thing, and I think you’ve touched on this already in a way, is it’s a very funny book, too. I mean, there are a lot of really really funny lines, funny bits — where you talk about the guy who’s “European adjacent.”

Maitland

I literally did not know where he was from. He just was Euro Euro. Yeah, that was really funny. Yeah. And that was like kind of — have fun, crazy time. That also was something when I was the story because I was, you know, in Europe and I was being wild. And so that kind of was an important part of me as a young person, doing something crazy and wild for the first time for the first real time. And yeah, that was that was kind of funny. Yeah, there’s a lot of those guys over there that are kind of like, you’re not sure where they’re coming from. They just are around like these model-type guys. You know, they’re cute, and they, you just don’t know what their story is.

Adapting the book into a film?

Dallas

So one thing I thought when I was reading the book is that it has it seems to have a lot of dramatic potential in that I could see it being a movie. Did you think that, too?

Maitland

Yeah, yeah. I would love that. We’re working on selling rights to it. But it’s funny, Kayden told me the same thing. And I think it comes from the fact that I studied screenwriting for so long that I kind of, I don’t know, it’s just in my mind. It’s in my wheelhouse, you know, to write like more like a movie segments and stuff like that. But I’m glad! thank you so much.

Dallas
Right, because there were definitely several scenes where I thought “Gosh, I mean this could be a great dramatic scene!” Like the moment when your husband kind of suggests to you to do a scene with another guy. And you’re surprised by that and there’s just this this moment where the two of you connect. I could see that being, heck, even something on stage almost with two great actors playing. Or the moment where you connect it to this one where you have that first scene that first shoot with I guess it’s Danny Mountain. And there’s that buildup to the the first moment of penetration and there’s this great realization and ecstasy. That could be just this wonderful, dramatic, cinematic moment.

Maitland
Yeah, I would really absolutely love that. And I hope to do that. We’re really packaging it for selling the rights, you know, after it comes out and stuff. So yeah, that was a crazy moment. It was funny. I still I say — I think I say this in the book — about how Danny said I was not nervous. And I’m surprised to this day. I mean, I was a little nervous. But when I got into it, when it was started, I was just going for it. And so there might have been trepidation a little bit beforehand. But when we actually did it, I knew. And there was a part of me that felt I loved being performing like this for the camera. And I was good at it. And it was, it was a very exciting time.

And yeah, and I like I said, you know, working with Danny and then Isiah Maxwell, exclusively, really, for the first over a year of me doing content on my own. If I would have had other anybody else that was not so professional and good and, you know, taught me the ropes, it might have been different. Like if I had somebody who was just some, you know, jerk, didn’t help me out at all and it wasn’t a good time, I might have been like, “Oh, maybe it’s not for me.” But this, they really allowed me to really delve into performing and also teaching me about how to film sex on film, and just how a scene goes. So I think when I came into the professional industry, I had that foundation. From that time, it really was like school for me for professional porn. It was like I was studying. And then I got into the real professional porn. And yeah, and went from there.

Dallas

So the idea of the book as a movie kind of beggars the question: who would play you? I mean, do you think you could play yourself, at least the later years?

Maitland

I don’t know think I can play myself in high school and stuff. Well, I don’t know, you might have different people. I think I can play myself at my porn years and all that. I can definitely do that for the last five years or so. So yeah, I think in the younger years, it would be different. I don’t know. I just want to sell these rights. We can talk about that later. Maybe someone will play me as a child, or as a young child, as a young woman. Although I was blond back then. I was blond on the soap. I was bright blond, so that wouldn’t work. Yeah, and I didn’t go red until closely before Boy Meets World. And I worry about how I had dyed my hair black and then washed out to red. And it was good. Let’s go with this. The rest is history. Because people are like, “When did you decide to go red?” And I go, “I got a story for that!” I didn’t really decide until I saw it on, you know, trying to remove the color.

Possibility of a second volume

Dallas
So do you think you’ll ever write a follow-up book?

Maitland
I am going to write another book. But I’m not sure yet if it’s going to be nonfiction or doing like erotic fiction, because I really want to do that. And I think I have some cool ideas for a novel in that way, like an erotic story or a collection of erotic stories. Because I used to do [those kinds of stories]. And I still do at times, but I really started off doing bedtime stories on my Patreon, where I would read dirty stories and act them out. This was in the beginning. And people really liked that. So yeah, so I’m thinking about that. But a follow-up book — I’m trying to think how much more I can tell nonfiction-wise. I could definitely share other stories and stuff. But I’m definitely interested in doing some erotic fiction and a novel.

Stylistic influences on her erotic fiction

Dallas

So any hints about the the tone of those? Is there is there a stylistic influence you would cite? Or do you just want to wait and people will read it one day and they’ll find out.

Maitland

I definitely always like to add comedy or a twist of comedy to my stuff. I like to have it have depth and sexy and very, you know, dirty and just really sensual and hot to read. But I like a comedic element to it always. I love the kind of people who can write or act things that are very sad that make you cry — they’re just so emotional or thought-provoking. And then they laugh in a second, because I really think it just softens everything, and makes it land even better. Because it’s like  I was told in screenwriting, that in order to really make the audience feel the scene or whatever you’re written, you need to have all of the senses connected, like they need to be able to see what you’re saying, feel what you’re saying — I don’t know about taste! Well, yeah, there’s taste involved. [Laughs] Taste and hear. And it has to resonate on different levels than just reading it. You need to feel it with your whole body. So that’s what my theme for my erotic books will be dealing with your whole body. Maybe that’s the title. Who knows?

Playing serious roles in porn

Dallas
Oh, there you go. There you go. I think it could work. You were mentioning mentioning there the importance of humor. Do you find it interesting or ironic in a way that a lot of your performances in porn so far are for the most part very serious characters. Thinking of Mistress Maitland for instance or your character in Muse, almost stern, really.

Maitland
Yes, you know, it’s been so interesting. And I’ve loved being able to play those roles. Because I was never able to play anything like that in Hollywood. I mean, the closest was my soap opera days. And that was so over-the-top dramatic. This is real drama and real sensuality and intensity. And I’ve loved that. I love being able to have these monologues and these characters and these scripts that just really allow me to play this intense sexual style of these characters that I was never able to play before. So it’s actually fun for me to go back and forth into it. I love playing the comedy. I actually do! And I love doing that. But then I love playing these dark characters. And the ones that Kayden writes are so delicious. So, I really liked that. But yeah, I like anything that’s intense and makes you feel something. No matter what it is. I think I like to hit you right to the heart no matter what.

Working with Brazzers: the picture script

Dallas
Definitely, and I know there are a lot of studios that have comedic elements in their pornography. In fact, I think you have a very interesting passage about Brazzers in your book where you talk about how they they kind of just they’re just taking the piss out of the whole thing, to use that marvelous British expression.

Maitland
I had a very different experience at Brazzers because I got a picture script with literal pictures on it. Sketches of what was going to happen! I was like, I’m an actress. Why am I not saying one single line in this whole thing? I didn’t even say my name. If you look back on the scene, it was just me in the pool, walking inside and I got blocked, and I don’t even know who Keiran — Keiran [Lee] was in the scene — but I don’t know who he was to me.  I think he was looking at me in the bushes. I don’t know. But yeah, that was a different experience and it was such a different experience from going from that, because I’d done Blacked two days before and [for] that, we had a script. And we got to full production and it was a big deal, big photoshoot. It was a big thing. I was just kind of like, it could be anybody. I mean, it wasn’t set apart and special. But it didn’t have any acting. So anyway, but then, so shortly later, going to Kayden’s and on the set of Drive, that was just a totally other experience. So all of the roads led me to getting there and to meeting Kayden on Deeper.

Steak vs. hamburgers: a porn metaphor

Dallas
And I think you have a nice comparison [in the book] where you talk about hamburgers and steak or something like that.

Maitland

Yeah, yes, because I think this is my thing. I think a lot of the stereotypes that come from porn to a world that might not know porn — well, they just know of it. They watch it. They go to Pornhub. They go to Brazzers. It’s what people know of it; they think everything is silly. Nobody can act or they have silly lines, or like they they think it’s all just a joke. And I hate the fact that people think that they can always make a joke out of porn when there’s so many great performers, and scripts and these other studios making these features and doing this stuff. And those aren’t seen by the outside world because Brazzers is like McDonald’s, like everybody sees that  . . . Pornhub — everybody sees that. And it’s not bad to have McDonald’s, but it’s like we are serving a steak dinner with like four courses. All these people making features that mean something and that have good acting in them and good writing and directing and art. I want people to see that in the world. And I’m tired of them being served hamburgers and thinking that’s what porn is. So yeah, I think a steak dinner is much better than just always having hamburgers.

Dallas

Right, because those Deeper movies are very, very sophisticated. You can get a literary education from some of them. I mean, some of the references that she’s making: Poetics For Tramps, for instance, is something you were in. Or that same, same movie, I think had a scene, “Sex Without Love,” based on a poem or something like that.

Maitland
Yes, that was really brilliant. And there’s a lot of other people doing that, too, that need to get recognition for it. It’s amazing how many women are doing it in porn, like getting really great scripts in production. And I think the outside world, I really tried to have them see that as much as possible that there is something else than just silly porn, even like just Pornhub stuff — you just pull up it and it’s mindless. Or just really super gonzo. And again, that’s fun. Sometimes, I like having the burger, like, every so often, but it’s not all that there is and porn needs to be respected more for what it can give to the world.

Adult Empire’s 25th anniversary 

Dallas

Right, there’s a lot more on the on the menu. And speaking of menus, Adult Empire is a site that has been offering virtually everything on that menu for a long time. It’s our 25th anniversary this year. So I did want to dig into that a little bit. First of all, by stepping back to 1997 and the late ’90s — so just in general, what do you think of first when you think ’97 and/or late 90s? What comes to mind?

Maitland

Okay, well, that’s when I started on Boy Meets World. So that’s that that time. But in ’97, I was still on Bold and Beautiful . .  ish. Like, at the end of the Beautiful time, kind of. So yeah, it’s so much of a different world than it was. I don’t know. Back then when Adult Empire started, it was videos and stuff, right? I mean, like actual [physical videos]! That’s amazing. But I’ve like thinking about myself when I was writing in the book about the ’90s. And like, what I was going through and stuff, I was so green, and I had a couple of casting directors say I was green at the time. I just didn’t like I was so vulnerable to the world and I wish I could like talk to that girl back then. And give her some advice on people and situations on how to be yourself and just really express myself back then.

The lost Boy Meets World viral video

So I just think about boy bands. You know, I have a funny story that I did not get to get into the book. We used to on Friday nights on Boy Meets World — no, Thursday night, sorry. When we taped the show, the audience would be there and the guys would all dance to Backstreet Boys. For the audience, they had ripped their shirts off. It was insane. And I don’t know if anybody has a video of that. And it’s a shame that we didn’t have phones that had record on it. But it was so funny every Friday night. All they are every Thursday night. They would, you know, do this whole planned out routine of Backstreet Boys. Somewhere I have a photo of it. The video would be great. But I don’t think we did it. We barely had internet. We were just getting emails.

Dallas

That is something that I think people today, particularly younger people who were born after 2000, they don’t know this world, this sort of pre-connected world that we had then.

• Download and listen to Maitland Ward’s full Adult Empire interview here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn

The era before social media

Maitland

I know! I was going to say that’s why kind of why didn’t know how popular Boy Meets World was out in the public with the kids and teens growing up because we didn’t have any internet. We didn’t have we don’t really know what they’re not going to most of them when sending fan letters. But like, we have, we could only know if like we had an appearance and people came out, but really over time Boy Meets World got so much more popular and known and celebrated.

Dallas

You didn’t have the trending hashtag Boy Meets World trending or something like that.

Maitland

No, where would you say it? Maybe something would come up in public.

Dallas

If you make Entertainment Weekly’s Hot List. [Laughs]

Maitland

Yeah, we just thought we were doing a little show that was people liked but it was fun. And, you know, we had no idea the outside world was growing up with us.

Watching porn in the ’90s

Dallas

And really the way people accessed porn the late 1990s was so different as you’ve said, DVDs, VHS. So were you a porn consumer in the late ’90s? And what was your main conduit of watching adult entertainment in that time?

Maitland

At that time, I wasn’t, because it was so much harder to find porn. I mean, I have to say I was probably one of the ones that was watching just whatever came on. And I thought that’s what porn was. You know, I wasn’t delving too deeply into it. It wasn’t until later on when I watched Kayden with Tori Black that I thought, “Wow, this is amazing. This is a real film that looks beautiful. It’s so well done.” So back in the early days, I would say I would just watch like — yeah, I mean, when we got the internet finally. Or you’d sneak something. You’d sneak like a video or something. It was all very hush-hush. You couldn’t just go on the internet and just find everything you needed right away. And I was probably too scared to do that. I thought people would know that I was searching porn. But yeah, back in the late ’90s, we didn’t really have that much of an outlet. It was mostly you get a DVD or something or watch that, but I wasn’t like a connoisseur when I was really young.

Penthouse Letters and dirty talk

Dallas

One thing you mentioned in the book is the Penthouse Letters.

Maitland

Oh, yeah. I read stuff. And also I would look at my Dad’s Playboys. And he didn’t have Penthouses. It was too dirty for him, but we still see them sometimes. But oh, yeah, the penthouse letters were so — I just realized I was so turned on by words. And by erotic dirty talk. It was when I talk about my first orgasm. It was amazing. It opened up an entire world to me. So yeah, it’s funny when you’re asking about porn, it’s like back then visually I wasn’t — of course I was turned on — but that shocked me how like just the words turned me on so much. And that’s really where erotic writing really landed with me, you know? I think that’s really the seat of where that started. So yeah, that was it was a wild time.

Dallas

Does it make you sad at all that some of those modes are kind of falling away? I mean, of course the Penthouse Letters now are not really much of a thing.

Maitland

It does, and that’s kind of why I want to write some erotic fiction and stuff. Because I think especially women a lot of times like to read and listen to things. They’re not as visually turned on as men tend to be. I don’t know, maybe that’s just me. But I love dirty-talking sex. That’s just the best, so yeah, I really wish there were those letters again. Hey, maybe I can write them for Penthouse.

Dallas
Right, right. Because those letters I assume they were just written by the editor right? They weren’t actually letters sent in.

Maitland
I can’t even remember exactly what was in them. It was just like a lot of stimulation. You know, it’s funny! I heard also a couple of actresses on the on the Bold and Beautiful and on soaps would actually read those kinds of letters before they did a love scene. So they would be kind of flushed and look sexual.

Dallas

Interesting, a little acting life hack here.

The connections between soap operas and porn / porn’s stigma

Maitland

I always say that the soap opera people are so similar to porn world, like porn and soaps are basically the same kind of industry. I really believe that because they’re kind of an offshoot of mainstream. They’re smaller. Everybody knows each other. There’s all these like dramatic personalities. There’s the big flamboyant personality and you know, big hair and makeup and then there’s the ones that are really interested in the acting or the creating the art. And there’s just all these like very delicious characters in both genres. And I think that it’s just interesting the comparison to that, because it really feels like every soap opera is kind of like the studios here in porn or whatever — the brands where you go, you kind of hop around to the different brands or you pop around and to different soaps. You see each other at awards functions that mainstream is not included in. It’s yeah, so anyway, that’s interesting

Dallas

I think there’s also some parallels even in the way that people consume those products with a lot of people correctly or incorrectly or fairly or unfairly — we characterize them as guilty pleasures that sort of thing.

Maitland

Yes. Yes, exactly. And everybody assumes, oh, they’re stupid. They’re bad. They’re bad writing. We had some greatest great actors on soaps back then, just like in porn. There’s great people. There’s great performers. And I hate the fact that it’s seen as like, oh, it’s dumb. Or it’s like, oh, I have to watch this, but it’s stupid. I’m going to have to hide that I watch it when actually soaps, especially back then they’ve kind of fallen off now. But soaps back then and porn now are the most consumed things. The Bold and the Beautiful was the number two show in the entire world. And after Baywatch, which is another guilty pleasure that people would say, but it’s so popular. And people just like porn. Everyone watches porn. So why are we hiding the fact that everybody’s watching it? And acting like it’s something bad? And I think the more and more it’s normalized and talked about and isn’t shied away from as something “Oh, scary and dirty or whatever,” it’s so much better for everyone. And it brings the worlds of mainstream and porn together.

I always hate saying mainstream and porn, like we’re shut out somehow from the real world. People say, “Oh, do you want to go by you’re a pornstar now?” Somebody asked me that — some outside press or something. “Should we say you’re a pornstar now or an actress?” I was like, “I’m an actress.” I, regardless of porn, regardless of mainstream, that nothing has changed that way. It’s just the type of movies that I’m doing. They’re totally normal. And I think I think there’s really a way in the future to have mainstream — I hate using that word again — but porn in films. And I think there’s an appetite for that. So that’s what I really look forward to, you know, working on doing.

Dallas
I think your book, if adapted as a movie, could be a movie that is a movie with a complete plot but has explicit sex scenes in it. Would be an exact example of what you’re describing.

Maitland
I would love to do that. And you know what, they wouldn’t even have to be full-on porn sex scenes where they’re so long. Just pieces of it, you know, which is actually sex in it. But it’s not a full-on porn scene where you’re having, like, 40 minutes. That would be the longest movie! [Laughs] But yeah, just parts of sex and where you really see sex, but then it goes back to the plot. I love that. That would be amazing.

25 years from now?

Dallas
So thinking about this span of 25 years do you ever imagine where you’d like to be in 25 years?

Maitland
Well, I hope to be making films. I would hope to be writing and stuff too. And 25 years, my god! But yeah, I hope that I have had a great body of work, of course, in porn and in mainstream, marrying the two. That’s really important to me. And I hope to have written a lot of things that I want to write about, a lot of books. And like I said, the stories and scripts, I really want to write scripts more in the future. So yeah, I mean, if I would have said 25 years ago that I would be talking to you about my porn career when I was not even on Boy Meets World yet, I would have absolutely said you are absolutely fucking crazy.

I’d say just take the journey every day and just follow your instincts and your heart and you’re going to get to where you need to go. And I wish I would have told myself that earlier. But then, the story, it’s weird — I’m looking back on things like “Oh, if I just would have told my younger self to do this and that.” But I wouldn’t have had this journey in my story, and I wouldn’t have been here. And so if I had had everything go like I wanted it to go where I planned it to go, or I thought it should go, I would not have a story today. So I think a lot of younger people should remember that. Anything that’s happening to you that’s negative or bad, or it’s part of your story and it makes you who you are. And if you can get beyond that if you can, like you know, take that and kind of run with it or overcome situations. You’re going to come out in a very — your authentic self, I guess. You’re going to find yourself because yeah, that’s what I did.

• Download and listen to Maitland Ward’s full Adult Empire interview here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn

Nerding out over Star Wars

Dallas
Speaking of your authentic self, I know that you are a big Star Wars fan! So this is something we occasionally do on our podcast here is we find a topic that a star is interested in that they might “nerd out” over and kind of dig into it a little bit. So when you think about the Star Wars saga is there any particular moment in those movies just really gets you up and excited, that’s the most memorable moment in the saga for you?

Maitland
My favorite, of course, is The Empire Strikes Back. That’s my favorite. And I love the depth of it. I love how it turned — the first one, it was so fun. And it was something nobody had ever seen before. But when we really got into the whole — I love the depth of the force and Yoda and all like this, Luke finding himself and finding out his past and all that. And I really think it just took it to such a new level. There’s so many moments that I’m trying to think of a favorite I love. You know, Leia and Han when she says, “I love you.” And he says, “I know.”

Dallas

You and your husband had a moment of [reenacting the] “I know” [moment], right?

Maitland

That’s what we did. And we got him at Disneyland. It was our anniversary one year. It was so funny. So yeah, that’s a favorite, like little moments. But there’s so many moments. And you know what — Darth Vader is such an interesting character to me, because he’s so evil in so much of it. But in the end in of Return of the Jedi, the way he dies, it was really a deep moment. It brought everything full circle to that. I just get a little emotional about that when I hear it, when I watch it. And I haven’t watched the first once in a while so I need to go back and do that again. That really gets give me all the feels.

Dallas

Because there’s that remarkable moment where Luke overpowers Vader after he jibes him about his sister and he just he’s just wailing on him. You know, he’s not even really using proper form. It’s really powerful. And there’s that choral music.

Maitland

Yeah, that’s such a great sequence. I just love that stuff. And yeah, so of course, because I have to love the slave Leaia stuff because it’s so fun because that’s where I started out, like cosplaying. So that was a that was a fun little sequence. I can’t say it’s my favorite of all of them. But it’s a favorite of mine just because I did that whole thing. And I sat next to the fake Jabba at this at the Gentle Giant Studios where they do all these all the characters and stuff and it was really fun to have a life size Jabba.

Dallas
Well, that’s an interesting topic there, too. Of course, [there’s] Lucas and his tinkering and the prequels. So what was your take on the prequels / the special editions, which them themselves are a late 90s phenomenon?

Maitland
Yeah, I mean, I’m always the biggest fan of the originals, I think. But I think they’re fun. The prequels  just aren’t my total favorite but they’re fun to watch. I loved of course when they brought back, you know, Leia and Han. Oh, and god, Leia, that’s the saddest, saddest. Oh, and Chewie’s reaction to it. It was just like, that’s a heartbreaking moment. But I don’t know — it’s interesting like the Star Wars universe has expanded with the prequels and sequels. So I was talking about this sequels more then with with Leia and everything and Han, I think this all, the Star Wars saga for me is like, it just feels like going home, because it was so so much a part of my childhood. Because when I was super young, they were coming out. I remember being so excited about the Return of the Jedi. And we didn’t see it right away. So my neighbor had seen it. And we’re like, “Don’t tell us like! Seems like there’s a big twist.” And so I remember being like, oh my god, I got to find that! And it’s funny. I say in the book, too. I used to play Star Wars in my yard with my dogs. I had a Springer Spaniel. And I used to call her Chewy because she was hairy, so she would play Chewy. I would be Leia and whoever —  the neighborhood kid or anything — they would come over and we play a whole Star Wars thing. But oh, this is getting good memories of Star Wars times.

Dallas
Do you have a favorite all-time Star Wars character?

Maitland
Oh, I think Leia. I always wanted to be Leia. Oh, yeah, I just love her. Something I love about her is she was such a kick-ass princess. There’s so many princesses that are just the Disney princesses and stuff, that are so sweet and weak  and the man saves them. She was just such a kick-ass princess. And I think growing up with her, just seeing that she battled and she was strong. And she was, you know, biting and she was just she was just so powerful in herself. She wasn’t just this like a damsel in distress. And I think growing up with that, that was a really great role model role model for me. And who I wanted to kind of emulate when I when I got older. I mean, I didn’t think necessarily I couldn’t be as powerful as her back then. But it was so fun to pretend and play into that whole world. And I did like Chewy because of my dog by no, but my favorite character to like probably all time is Leia.

Dallas

If they ever made another Star Wars spoof parody, is there a particular character you’d want to play. Would it be Leia?

Maitland

I could play any of the characters maybe I could be see Threepio or something. I don’t know. I’m too tall to play Artoo. It depends on what universe we’re in, which Star Wars we’re talking about. But I still think I would be more likely to be a Leia character. Just because I would enjoy it the most. But Threepio — I don’t know.

Dallas

Because you’re right, the height factor is a good parallel

Maitland

Yeah, right. Because you have fun like just having my arms like Threepio right now.

Closing

Dallas

So I know we’re running short on time here, but as we wind down I definitely did want to give you a chance to first of all talk about any cool projects you have coming up that you’d like to mention and also just to tell people where they can follow you on the web.

Maitland

We’re filming right now a great feature. I’m very excited about it. I think, like I said, it’s sort of metaphorically, artistically like my life. So that’ll be coming. Look forward to that. And so I have some other really cool scenes. There’s a special scene that I’ve written that’s going to come. So it’s been cool, kind of like writing stuff, too. That’s going to come out pretty soon or within a month or something like that. I don’t know when. And then what else do I have? I have so much stuff going on. But I’m really excited about those projects that are going to come out. We’re working on them right now. Getting them in and we’ll see them, like I think they’re supposed to release the feature like right around when my book is released. So it’ll all tie in, the universes and stuff. And for my social media, I’m always maitlandward at Instagram, Twitter. What I’ve been to I haven’t mentioned really to the public yet, just a few fans, that I I’ve been toying around with TikTok, toying around with that. I’m not sure exactly how to do it yet, but I am it’s Rated X Book if anybody wants to follow, but I haven’t made the formal announcement on my social media. I’m still trying to figure out how to work it. I don’t know if I’ll even be good at it, but I kind of want to do it for book talk for my book and stuff especially like in a month or something when it gets closer to time to really you know, be able to talk about it the excerpts and stuff.

Dallas

Well, Maitland Ward, the book is Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me From Hollywood. People will want to check that up when it comes out September 6.

• Download and listen to Maitland Ward’s full Adult Empire interview here: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn

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